Oh Holly, I know how much you hate vaccines. And I also know how much you love my over-opinionatedness... I agree that the flu is not THAT bad and that we shouldn't all run out and get vaccinated. However, I'm sure you would agree that as a nurse I work with those who are at high risk of dying of influenza and therefor should take measures to prevent such an illness--- mild though it may be. I have to tell you though that I had to stop watching the video at 4 minutes and 57 seconds because it claimed to be "educational only" and not "for or against" the vaccine. Many of the statistics were very different than what I have learned very recently and the video presented it's info in what I think was very slanted and biased language. I agree that people are vaccine crazy in these days, absolutely, but I think there are good and bad things about them. But as far as the notion that vaccines are poison and bad for us all? I just don't buy it. But I love that you investigate, which is more than most people. Love you!
Holly I respect your opinion but even you need to admit that presentation is bias. And while you have serious distaste for vaccines they have done loads of good for humanity ex: when is the last time you met someone with polio, small pox, or rubella... they have basically been eradicated among a few other ugly diseases. Guess that is why we all get to make our best decision for our own kids. I rank the no vaccine approach up their with the no circumcision approach. Ask Lianne about that one!
Amy and Alicia- and anyone else- I admit that this presentation is indeed biased. I like it that way- because when the CDC puts out their propaganda, it too is biased. Why shouldn't it be? There are two sides to everything, and I feel that all too often, only the most powerful ($$$) is followed. There are a lot of statistics out there that the CDC and FDA will deny or never share. And because of that many people will continue to receive injections that could be of no benefit and infact dangerous to their health. There ARE instances of major reaction- you cannot deny that. So what if it was YOUR kid that became brain dead? Then what? I understand the premise that the overall benefit outweighs the individual risks. However, I am not willing to take that risk with my children right now. This may be below the belt, but you go ahead and vaccinate yourself and your children, and I'll enjoy the benefits. Eeeek. Did I just say that? I also have to say that I am not totally Anti-vaccine. I am in favor of SAFE vaccination. That means better/safer ingredients, a different schedule that is not "one size fits all" (Dr. Sears has an alternate schedule that is just as effective) and doctors helping people who choose to be vaccinated take preparatory measures to be sure their immune system is in tip top shape before administration of the shots. Oh man I opened a can of worms. Don't get me started on the H1N1 vaccine coming out... This is supposed to be about the FLU shot! That's really all I wanted to talk about! I love a good debate. And I love you guys! :)
I do have a question though: I wondered about the mention of doctors and nurses not getting the flu shot. Those of you who work in the medical field, what has been your experience? Do you get the flu shot? I'm curious if that is accurate.
Yes I am definitely getting the flu shot (refer to comment #1). I need to protect those whom I serve who are at high risk. However, I have to rebut one point you make, 'what if it were YOUR child who were brain dead?' (Paraphrase) With: what if it were YOUR grandma who contracted the influenza that ultimately killed her because she came in contact with someone who had the influenza (and could have prevented it!)? Every one matters, old and young. Your kid and mine. P.S. Being well informed and cautious about vaccines doesn't make you a liberal. It makes you a thinker. Let us not divide ourselves between conservative and liberal over a vaccine. And yes, Holly, the vaccine issue is a can of worms for me. I try not to get my info from the CDC OR from youtube videos (also propaganda), but instead from medical professionals, medical journals, and scientific studies. BTW undecided on the H1N1 vaccine.
I'm undecided on the H1N1 vaccine too. My family usually gets the seasonal flu shot because we have a toddler, an infant, and a type 1 diabetic in the house. But this H1N1 vaccine, I just don't know yet. I do agree that with kids, one vaccine doesn't fit them all. But I do think (about the flu shot) that if you have a weakened immune system, the benefits outweigh the risks. Just my opinion.
I guess what I have learned from this discussion is that we all will get information from the people who we agree with the most. That is why we read the books, articles, blogs, newspapers that we do. We find sources of information that jive most smoothly with our own way of thinking. It makes sense. See, I could read a peer reviewed article from a medical journal, and it may be some great information, but that doesn't mean that I would agree with it or prescribe to it. The same goes the other way around. My intent is not to change peoples' minds. I don't know what my intent was in sharing this silly presentation, really. Other than perhaps one of my readers would come by it and say to themselves, "huh, I've never heard it put that way..."
This discussion certainly has got me thinking as well and along the same lines that it got you thinking. We all buy into one side or another, one person's opinion or another's opinion, one side of propaganda or another. Because the truth is, none of us are experts and we have to ultimately rely on whom our gut tells us is right, ie., who and what most closely fits in with our basic life values and beliefs. None of us are the scientists who made or studied the vaccine, none of us made the video, none of us work for the cdc and control what information is released and what info isn't; in a broader non- vaccine related sense, none of us are economists, history majors, political or social experts. So we have a few core values, we stick to them, and if we are responsible we continue to learn and educate ourselves constantly... then we choose those we listen to and those we don't. Holly I will always pay attention to what is important to you because like I said before, I believe you are a thinker, and that you are honest with yourself and others. So don't take my arguments too seriously, you should know that I am ALWAYS up for a good debate. (:
A couple of thoughts... first of all, from my experience in the health profession, beginning with working as a CNA to nursing school to RN, WAY more doctors and nurses get the flu vaccine than was pointed out in the video. When flu season comes around, I've never seen a nurse or health care worker not get the vaccine. Second of all, what if it is your child that dies from meningitis, a very common infection that can be easily prevented by a vaccine because you chose not to vaccinate against it. Works both ways. I guess that is why we must educate ourselves so we can be our child's voice.
Mothers have intiution for thier children, if they are close to them AND the lord. I KNEW vaccinated my son was a bad idea when he was little. and didnt know why. i studied and found a LOT of studies to conclude that it was bad... but was REALLY bullied into giving him the first series at 5 months from my doc and nurses (x-doc) and he had an allergic reaction and had a 105 degree fever for 5 days ON tylonal and ib profin. i listened to my heart and didnt do it again
at 4 yrs old we did studies again to view which vaccines he should get. they wanted to give him 7 one week and 6 the next! NOOOO way! we gave him the three we decided were viable and then 3 a month later. and they were able to give him the proper shots that would NOT react as the first did. (plus he was bigger and stronger)
i agree that not all vaccines are bad, but some seem silly... chicken pox??? and this new one! Not even tested properly!
and i also agree that EVERYONE needs to research EACH shot out before giving it to your kids, just dont mindlessly walk into it cus thats what americans do.
be smart, be a god mom, and that means doing what you researched and decided was best. and i am personally grateful for most shots... i lived in thailand a few years and met several people with all kinds of diseases that are not that prevelant here. (took 17 EXTRA vaccines just to be allowed to go there)
Oh Holly, I know how much you hate vaccines. And I also know how much you love my over-opinionatedness... I agree that the flu is not THAT bad and that we shouldn't all run out and get vaccinated. However, I'm sure you would agree that as a nurse I work with those who are at high risk of dying of influenza and therefor should take measures to prevent such an illness--- mild though it may be. I have to tell you though that I had to stop watching the video at 4 minutes and 57 seconds because it claimed to be "educational only" and not "for or against" the vaccine. Many of the statistics were very different than what I have learned very recently and the video presented it's info in what I think was very slanted and biased language. I agree that people are vaccine crazy in these days, absolutely, but I think there are good and bad things about them. But as far as the notion that vaccines are poison and bad for us all? I just don't buy it. But I love that you investigate, which is more than most people. Love you!
ReplyDeleteHolly I respect your opinion but even you need to admit that presentation is bias. And while you have serious distaste for vaccines they have done loads of good for humanity ex: when is the last time you met someone with polio, small pox, or rubella... they have basically been eradicated among a few other ugly diseases. Guess that is why we all get to make our best decision for our own kids. I rank the no vaccine approach up their with the no circumcision approach. Ask Lianne about that one!
ReplyDeleteAmy and Alicia- and anyone else-
ReplyDeleteI admit that this presentation is indeed biased. I like it that way- because when the CDC puts out their propaganda, it too is biased. Why shouldn't it be? There are two sides to everything, and I feel that all too often, only the most powerful ($$$) is followed. There are a lot of statistics out there that the CDC and FDA will deny or never share. And because of that many people will continue to receive injections that could be of no benefit and infact dangerous to their health. There ARE instances of major reaction- you cannot deny that. So what if it was YOUR kid that became brain dead? Then what?
I understand the premise that the overall benefit outweighs the individual risks. However, I am not willing to take that risk with my children right now. This may be below the belt, but you go ahead and vaccinate yourself and your children, and I'll enjoy the benefits. Eeeek. Did I just say that?
I also have to say that I am not totally Anti-vaccine. I am in favor of SAFE vaccination. That means better/safer ingredients, a different schedule that is not "one size fits all" (Dr. Sears has an alternate schedule that is just as effective) and doctors helping people who choose to be vaccinated take preparatory measures to be sure their immune system is in tip top shape before administration of the shots. Oh man I opened a can of worms. Don't get me started on the H1N1 vaccine coming out...
This is supposed to be about the FLU shot! That's really all I wanted to talk about! I love a good debate.
And I love you guys! :)
I do have a question though: I wondered about the mention of doctors and nurses not getting the flu shot. Those of you who work in the medical field, what has been your experience? Do you get the flu shot? I'm curious if that is accurate.
Keep 'em coming peoples!
OOooohhhhh...I do enjoy reading this dialogue! Holly, what a lovely little liberal you are becoming - it feels good doesn't it? hee hee!
ReplyDeleteI only know a few medical professionals and they are always at the front of the line for their flu shot. Also, we probably agree on the H1N1 vaccine.
ReplyDeleteYes I am definitely getting the flu shot (refer to comment #1). I need to protect those whom I serve who are at high risk. However, I have to rebut one point you make, 'what if it were YOUR child who were brain dead?' (Paraphrase) With: what if it were YOUR grandma who contracted the influenza that ultimately killed her because she came in contact with someone who had the influenza (and could have prevented it!)? Every one matters, old and young. Your kid and mine. P.S. Being well informed and cautious about vaccines doesn't make you a liberal. It makes you a thinker. Let us not divide ourselves between conservative and liberal over a vaccine. And yes, Holly, the vaccine issue is a can of worms for me. I try not to get my info from the CDC OR from youtube videos (also propaganda), but instead from medical professionals, medical journals, and scientific studies. BTW undecided on the H1N1 vaccine.
ReplyDeleteI'm undecided on the H1N1 vaccine too. My family usually gets the seasonal flu shot because we have a toddler, an infant, and a type 1 diabetic in the house. But this H1N1 vaccine, I just don't know yet. I do agree that with kids, one vaccine doesn't fit them all. But I do think (about the flu shot) that if you have a weakened immune system, the benefits outweigh the risks. Just my opinion.
ReplyDeleteI guess what I have learned from this discussion is that we all will get information from the people who we agree with the most. That is why we read the books, articles, blogs, newspapers that we do. We find sources of information that jive most smoothly with our own way of thinking. It makes sense. See, I could read a peer reviewed article from a medical journal, and it may be some great information, but that doesn't mean that I would agree with it or prescribe to it. The same goes the other way around. My intent is not to change peoples' minds. I don't know what my intent was in sharing this silly presentation, really. Other than perhaps one of my readers would come by it and say to themselves, "huh, I've never heard it put that way..."
ReplyDeleteThis discussion certainly has got me thinking as well and along the same lines that it got you thinking. We all buy into one side or another, one person's opinion or another's opinion, one side of propaganda or another. Because the truth is, none of us are experts and we have to ultimately rely on whom our gut tells us is right, ie., who and what most closely fits in with our basic life values and beliefs. None of us are the scientists who made or studied the vaccine, none of us made the video, none of us work for the cdc and control what information is released and what info isn't; in a broader non- vaccine related sense, none of us are economists, history majors, political or social experts. So we have a few core values, we stick to them, and if we are responsible we continue to learn and educate ourselves constantly... then we choose those we listen to and those we don't. Holly I will always pay attention to what is important to you because like I said before, I believe you are a thinker, and that you are honest with yourself and others. So don't take my arguments too seriously, you should know that I am ALWAYS up for a good debate. (:
ReplyDeleteA couple of thoughts... first of all, from my experience in the health profession, beginning with working as a CNA to nursing school to RN, WAY more doctors and nurses get the flu vaccine than was pointed out in the video. When flu season comes around, I've never seen a nurse or health care worker not get the vaccine. Second of all, what if it is your child that dies from meningitis, a very common infection that can be easily prevented by a vaccine because you chose not to vaccinate against it. Works both ways. I guess that is why we must educate ourselves so we can be our child's voice.
ReplyDeletewoah...
ReplyDeletethoughts:
Mothers have intiution for thier children, if they are close to them AND the lord. I KNEW vaccinated my son was a bad idea when he was little. and didnt know why. i studied and found a LOT of studies to conclude that it was bad... but was REALLY bullied into giving him the first series at 5 months from my doc and nurses (x-doc) and he had an allergic reaction and had a 105 degree fever for 5 days ON tylonal and ib profin. i listened to my heart and didnt do it again
at 4 yrs old we did studies again to view which vaccines he should get. they wanted to give him 7 one week and 6 the next! NOOOO way! we gave him the three we decided were viable and then 3 a month later. and they were able to give him the proper shots that would NOT react as the first did. (plus he was bigger and stronger)
i agree that not all vaccines are bad, but some seem silly... chicken pox??? and this new one! Not even tested properly!
and i also agree that EVERYONE needs to research EACH shot out before giving it to your kids, just dont mindlessly walk into it cus thats what americans do.
be smart, be a god mom, and that means doing what you researched and decided was best. and i am personally grateful for most shots... i lived in thailand a few years and met several people with all kinds of diseases that are not that prevelant here. (took 17 EXTRA vaccines just to be allowed to go there)
oh, and you can find studies to support ANY hypothisis.
ReplyDeleteand ~ sorry i cant spell